----------- THIS FILE CONTAINS MISCELLANEOUS ARTICLES ABOUT WOMEN'S HOCKEY WHICH WERE POSTED TO THE REC.SPORT.HOCKEY NEWSGROUP. ----------- From: joeclark@hookup.net (Joe Clark) Newsgroups: rec.sport.misc,rec.sport.hockey Subject: Doing story on women's hockey-- integration vs. segregation, etc. Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 09:44:03 -0500 Hiyez. I'm writing a story for the _Village Voice_ in New York exploring in a *factual* way the issue of segregation vs. integration in women's hockey. In other words, should women play in all-woman leagues or on teams with guys? Or both? (There are precedents for all those options.) And how does the answer to that question differ if we're talking about girls, not adult women? Comments, please, especially from actual female hockey players (past or present). Joe Clark ----------- From: bmurray@pluto.njcc.com (Brad Murray) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: women in the sport of Hockey Date: 15 Feb 1995 19:07:50 GMT (ketterin@InforMNs.k12.mn.us) wrote: >For all the guys out there that say girls shouldn't play hockey well you >better speak up because I am going to prove to you that The girls can play >as hard and and as well as any of you guys out there Maybe in goal, but on the ice the lack of strength and size really shows. ----------- From: york8430@mach1.wlu.ca (James York u) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: women in the sport of Hockey Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:35:35 GMT I have to agree with Dawn.... Our Women's Varsity team (now in its second season) is doing quite well. We also can't ignore the personal triumph of Manon Rheaume of the Tampa Bay Lightning Organization for getting in a NHL exhibition game. Who knows, maybe some day there really will be a Glenda Anderson and a Wendy Clark??? Jim York Wilfrid Laurier University Waterloo, Ontario 'It's my Fifty Mission Cap. I worked it to look like that!' The Hip ----------- From: vv1@dgp.toronto.edu (Marc J. Ouellette) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: women in the sport of Hockey Date: 17 Feb 95 15:32:35 GMT york8430@mach1.wlu.ca (James York u) writes: >Our Women's Varsity team (now in its second season) is doing quite well. >We also can't ignore the personal triumph of Manon Rheaume of the Tampa >Bay Lightning Organization for getting in a NHL exhibition game. Yes, Laurier is doing rather well for an expansion team (this being their first year in the OWIAA). They have at least one exciting player in Amy Turek. Do you know if Laurier edged out York for the fourth and final playoff spot? The OWIAA finals are taking place this weekend at York, with U of Toronto taking on the 4th place team (either Laurier or York), and, I think, Guelph battling Queen's in the other semi-final. As for Manon playing in an exhibition game... that's a different story. >Who knows, maybe some day there really will be a Glenda Anderson and a >Wendy Clark??? Not any day soon. As I've said before, it's not even close right now. The strength and speed issue makes it that way. I've followed top level women's hockey for over four years now, and, as exciting as it is, and as skillful as some of the players are, they just aren't strong enough to compete in a contact game with the Eric Lindross (and Theo Fleurys) of the NHL. (e.g., in 1992, the biggest player on Canada's Women's World Championship Team was 5'9", and weighed less than 160lbs!) As a side note, Team Canada (Women) 1994 goalie Lesley Reddon became the first female goalie to dress, and to play goal in CIAU hockey (that's Canadian men's varsity hockey). She had been practicing with the Moncton team, and came into action as a result of an injury to one of their goalies (actually, sickness more than injury, I think). As far as I know, she played in part of one game, making 7 saves on 7 shots. That's about all I know of the story... can anyone else fill in more details? Marc ----------- From: kstrom@badlands.NoDak.edu (Kevin B Strom) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: women in the sport of Hockey Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 21:18:50 GMT Hirst Library 2 (ketterin@InforMNs.k12.mn.us) wrote: >For all the guys out there that say girls shouldn't play hockey well you >better speak up because I am going to prove to you that The girls can play >as hard and and as well as any of you guys out there Well, last time I saw a chick cross check a guy, drop her gloves, pick him off the ice and further beat the crap out of him was half past a quarter to nowhere. Women in hockey-- not gonna happen unless you want to start taking shots of testosterone, but then you wouldn't be women would you? ----------- From: peggymck@aol.com (PeggyMcK) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Women's Beanpot Date: 15 Feb 1995 10:06:31 -0500 Harvard beat Northeastern 3-2 (I believe) to win the 18th annual Women's Beanpot. How many of you knew there was a women's Beanpot? Peggy ----------- From: smorris@crl.com (Stephen Morrison) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Manon Rheaume Date: 22 Feb 1995 17:02:33 -0800 >Just wanted to know if anyone out there knows where Manon Rheaume is >playing now and what her status is. MR was released by the Atlanta Knights after she spent one year here in ATL and spent the next year in the Knights ECHL affiliate in Nashville. She then appeared on the roster of Las Vegas, but she got no playing time there either. There was an article in the Atlanta paper saying that she was playing in Austria....anybody know anymore. I watched MR play a couple games. She wasn't that bad. But she was a butterfly goalie, and being only 5'3, she left the entire top of the net open. ----------- From: smorris@crl.com (Stephen Morrison) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Manon Rheaume Date: 22 Feb 1995 17:08:52 -0800 >Last I saw of Manon was in the ECHL playing for Jacksonville. Last I heard was that she was playing in Austria. ----------- From: agullana@nevada.edu (HENRY AGULLANA) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Manon Rheaume Date: 23 Feb 1995 07:45:53 GMT Just FYI, she's still affiliated with the local Las Vegas thunder, even though she's not on the roster. She is now playing for a local semi-pro team called the Las Vegas aces, I have not been out there to see her play, but I hear she's been doing good! Henry ----------- From: jyeung@kits.sfu.ca (Jason Man-Kai Yeung) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Women's Hockey: Upcoming International Competition Date: 23 Feb 95 18:25:15 GMT andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) writes: >============================================================================== >| ... She shoots! ...... She scoooooores!!! | >| _ __ | >| ~o ~o ~o ~o | |\ )_ | >| \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| | \__) | >| /> /> \ /> . /\ | .| | | >| z z . z z \_. z z z z | | | >| |_/ | >| TEAM CANADA - WOMEN'S WORLD ICE HOCKEY CHAMPIONS - 1990, 1992, 1994 | >============================================================================== I caught a bit of the documentary about Canada's World Champion team on wtn a couple of days ago and heard some writer mention something about how women would probably only be able to be goaltenders in the NHL. Then I caught myself thinking.... women that play ice hockey probably check harder and whine less than Craig Janney!!! Jason ----------- From: Phil Legault Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Canada's women's hockey team Date: 16 Oct 1995 13:09:20 GMT Organization: Canadian Hockey CANADIAN HOCKEY RELEASE Friday, October 13, 1995 NR69.95 THE ROAD TO NAGANO BEGINS FOR NATIONAL WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM OTTAWA - The 1998 Winter Olympic Games in Nagano, Japan, are over 26 months away, but the road to building a gold-medal contender in the women's ice-hockey program begins this Saturday, October 14, at Teen Ranch in Caledon, Ont., as Canadian Hockey brings together the national women's team coaching pool and 50 hopefuls for a week-long training camp. At the beginning of August, the national women's team coaching pool invited 53 players to attend the first ever evaluation camp for the national women's team from October 14-20, 1995. Of the original 53 players named, only Virginie Bilodeau of St-Étienne-de-Lauzon, Que., Winnipeg's Laura Vanderhorst and Denise Caron of Montreal declined the invitation because of career or health concerns. "It's been a challenge for us to establish yards-sticks for comparing players across the country with so few competitive opportunities," says Bob Nicholson, Canadian Hockey senior vice-president, hockey operations. "But our coaching pool has put in a lot of effort over the past season in evaluating players and reviewing the information gathered from our branches. "We're in an important development period for the women's program," adds Nicholson. "The core of Canada's teams for the 1997 World Women's Championship in Kitchener, Ontario, and the 1998 Winter Olympics, should come from this group, and our evaluation process of today will affect our programs into the next century as we look to the 2002 Olympics." The coaching staff will use the camp to evaluate each player through an interview process, fitness testing, on-ice skills and initiation to international style hockey. The information will be put in the national women's team database, allowing the staff to monitor the players over the next few years to Nagano. From this up-coming evaluation camp, the coaching pool will select 20 players to represent Canada at the 1996 Pacific Women's Hockey Championship scheduled for Vancouver from April 1-6, 1996. "We'll outline to the players the commitment necessary to wear a Canadian jersey at the 1998 Olympics, and challenge them to set goals to meet these expectations," comments Nicholson. The on-ice sessions are open to the general public. Canadian Hockey, in conjunction with the Hockey Hall of Fame, is also hosting a women's hockey festival on Thursday, October 19, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m., with information booths and seminars. The evaluation camp on-ice practice schedule is as follows (sessions are at the Ice-Corral Arena at Teen Ranch): Sat., October 14: Players arrive Sun., October 15: Practices 4:15 pm - 5:30 pm; and, 5:45 pm - 7 pm Mon., October 16 Practices - Group 1 9 am - 10:15 am; and, 2:15 pm - 3:30 pm Practices - Group 2 10:30 am - 11:45 am; and, 3:45 pm - 5 pm Practices - Group 3 12 noon - 1:15 pm; and, 5:15 pm - 6:30 pm Tue., October 17 Intra-squad scrimmage 9:15 am - 11:15 am Practices - Group 3 2:15 pm - 3:45 pm Practices - Group 2 4 pm - 5:30 pm Practices - Group 1 5:45 pm - 7:15 pm Wed., October 18 Practice for goalkeepers 10 am - 12 noon Thur., October 19 Practices - Group 2 9 am - 10:30 am Practices - Group 3 10:45 am - 12:15 pm Practices - Group 1 12:30 pm - 2 pm Intra-squad scrimmage 7 pm - 9 pm Fri., October 20 Round-robin games 8:30 am; 9:45 am; and, 11 am (1-hour games) The list of 50 players include double gold medalist Manon Rhéaume; five members of the 1990 world gold medal team; 13 players from the 1992 winning squad; and, 15 of the players 1995 Pacific Women's Championship. All but two players from the 1994 World Championship team are listed. Andria Hunter and Nathalie Picard, members of Canada's '94 squad, retired from international competition because of injuries. NATIONAL WOMEN'S TEAM EVALUATION CAMP COACHING POOL - Melody Davidson, Castor, Alta.; Julie Healy, Montréal; Karen Hughes, Agincourt, Ont.; Shannon Miller, Calgary; Danièle Sauvageau, St-Eustache, Que. GOALKEEPERS (7) - Brenda Deneault, Barrie, Ont.; Danielle Dubé, Vancouver; Lesley Reddon, Mississauga, Ont.; Nikki Ree, Bentley, Alta.; Manon Rhéaume, Charlesbourg, Que.; Marie-Claude Roy, Brossard, Que.; Chantal Toth, Vancouver. DEFENCE (14) - Bobbi Auger, Ponoka, Alta.; Justine Blainey, Toronto, Ont.; Therese Brisson, Montréal; Cassie Campbell, Guelph, Ont.; Judy Diduck, Sherwood Park, Alta.; Rebecca Fahey, Sackville, N.B.; Geraldine Heaney, Weston, Ont.; Stephanie Parent, Belledune, N.B..; Cheryl Pounder, Mississauga, Ont.; Nathalie Rivard, Cumberland, Ont.; Carole Scheibel, Wilcox, Sask..; Fiona Smith, Edmonton; Laurie Taylor-Bolton, King City, Ont.; Christianne Tremills, Toronto. FORWARD (29) - Kelly Bechard, Sedley, Sask.; Laura Bennion, Vancouver; Amanda Benoit, Welland, Ont.; Martine Bérubé, Montréal; Kari Colpitts, Calgary, Alta.; Nancy Deschamps, Montréal; Nancy Drolet, Drummondville, Que.; Lori Dupuis, Williamstown, Ont.; Caroline Gelinas, Trois-Rivières, Que.; Danielle Goyette, Sainte-Foy, Que.; Marianne Grnak, Richmond Hill, Ont.; Lisa Hanlon, Etobicoke, Ont.; Mel Haz, Edmonton; Angela James, Thornhill, Ont.; Laura Leslie, Beaconsfield, Que.; Luce Letendre, Brossard, Que.; Tracy Luhowy, Winnipeg, Man.; Kathy McCormack, Blackville, N.B.; France Montour, Grand-Mere, Que.; Karen Nystrom, Scarborough, Ont.; Margot Verlaan-Page, Kitchener, Ont.; Caroline Proulx, Bois Brand, Que.; Jane Robinson, Edmonton; Laura Schuler, Scarborough, Ont.; France St. Louis, St-Hubert, Que.; Amy Turek, Castor Centre, Alta.; Somer West, Bowmanville, Ont.; Hayley Wickenheiser, Calgary; Stacy Wilson, Moncton, N.B. For further information, please contact: Phil Legault - Ottawa work (613) 748-5613, ext. 1-2306 ----------------------- end of forwarded article ----------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Aurora N. Ford" Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Canadian National Women's Team Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 18:11:45 -0700 On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Daniel Ponech wrote: >Does anyone know how the Canadian National Women's team is doing this >year? I expect big things from them at the next Winter Olympics, but I'm >having trouble following their performance from down here in the States. And I'm having trouble following their progress from here in Canada. I believe the team is not playing together now, rather they play as " team Alberta" " team Ontario" etc... I think the selections for this team happen in late 1997. Women's hockey just isn't as popular as mens... too bad :( ------------------------------ Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) Subject: Re: Canadian National Women's Team Date: 6 Nov 95 19:38:13 GMT "Aurora N. Ford" writes: >On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Daniel Ponech wrote: >>Does anyone know how the Canadian National Women's team is doing this >>year? I expect big things from them at the next Winter Olympics, but I'm >>having trouble following their performance from down here in the States. > >And I'm having trouble following their progress from here in Canada. >I believe the team is not playing together now, rather they play as >"team Alberta," " team Ontario" etc... I think the selections for this >team happen in late 1997. Women's hockey just isn't as popular as mens... >too bad :( The Canadian National Women's team won the gold medal at the last 3 World Championships (Ottawa Canada 1990, Tampere Finland 1992, and Lake Placid, USA, 1994). 1990 was the first official IIHF sanctioned Women's World Championship. The next World Championship will be held in Kitchener Ontario Canada in 1997. Women's hockey will be an Olympic sport for the first time in the 1998 Winter Olympics at Nagano, Japan. The top 5 countries from the 1997 World Championships, and the host team from Japan will compete in the 1998 Winter Olympics. Since the 1994 World Championship, the Canadian National Women's team has competed at the 1995 Pacific Rim Tournament which was held in San Jose, USA from April 3-8 1995. Canada placed first at this tournament. The other countries competing were USA, China and Japan (in their respective placing order). The next event for Team Canada is the 1996 Pacific Rim Tournament which will be held in Vancouver, Canada from April 1-6, 1996. Two weeks ago the Canadian Hockey Association hosted a training camp to identify potential players to compete for Canada in this tournament. The official list of the players who were selected has not yet been released, although the players have been notified. For information about the Canadian National Women's team and other women's hockey (University Hockey, Club Hockey, etc), please see the information in my homepage: http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria -------- Or go directly to the web page which interests you... Women's International Hockey: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~andria/International_Hockey.html Women's University Hockey: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~andria/University_Hockey.html Women's Hockey Info on the Net: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~andria/Womens_hockey_info.html Women's Hockey Player Profiles: http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~andria/Womens_hockey_pics.html -------- Andria Hunter ------------------------------ From: plegault@hockey.cdnsport.ca (plegault) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Canadian Women's Team Date: 10 Nov 1995 13:38:36 GMT Organization: Cdnsport.ca User Wednesday, November 8, 1995 CANADIAN WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM NAMED FOR 1996 PACIFIC RIM CHAMPIONSHIP OTTAWA - Canadian Hockey announced today the coaching staff and team that would represent Canada at the 1996 IIHF Women's Pacific Rim Championship next April in Vancouver. Head coach Shannon Miller of Calgary will lead the best 20 players in Canada today to the Women's Pacific Rim Championship along with assistants Mel Davidson, also of Calgary, and Karen Hughes of Agincourt, Ont. Canadian Hockey held a first evaluation camp for the national women's team program for 53 invited players just north of Toronto in mid-October. "The camp really showed us the depth of talent that Canada has in women's hockey," says Bob Nicholson, Canadian Hockey senior vice-president of hockey operations. "We had a tough time in cutting down the group to a roster of 20 players for the 1996 Pacific Women's Rim Championship. There were some very hard decisions that had to be made." Shannon Miller, five-year veteran of the national program, hopes she can provide the team with some of the leadership necessary to keep the Canadian national women's team moving forward. "I have been fortunate to work with the last two world championship teams, the last one as an assistant, but I believe my biggest test so far was at last year's Pacific Women's Rim Championship," says Miller. "With 16 rookies and two new assistant coaches, we still passed the test with a gold medal in the final against the United States." Looking to the future of the national women's team, Miller sees the need to move on. "For the past two years, we've been evaluating and initiating players at an introductory level," adds Miller. "We're now going to take these players to the next level of preparation for international games. "We've had the chance to decide on the type of team we want and which players we want to fill those roles." The type of player Miller looks for is one that combines size and strength with skating abilities for the international game, and its open-ice brand of hockey, and a player that can read and react to the flow of the game. The former Calgary police officer will oversee the whole plan for the 1996 team, but she has strong support from Mel Davidson providing player evaluation, scouting, and video, and Karen Hughes playing a strong technical role, and preparing the on ice practice plans. The 1996 Canadian Pacific Rim team includes goalkeeper Manon Rhéaume, and three-time gold medalists Angela James, France St-Louis, Judy Diduck, Geraldine Heaney, and Stacy Wilson. Team Canada's 1996 roster is as follows: Goalkeepers (2) - Danielle Dube, Vancouver; Manon Rhéaume, Charlesbourg, Que. Defence (6) - Therese Brisson, Fredericton, N.B.; Cassie Campbell, Brampton, Ont.; Judy Diduck, Sherwood Park, Alta.; Rebecca Fahey, Sackville, N.B.; Geraldine Heaney, Weston, Ont.; Fiona Smith, Edmonton. Forwards (12) -Nancy Deschamps, Montreal; Nancy Drolet, Drummondville, Que.; Lori Dupuis, Williamstown, Ont.; Danielle Goyette, St. Nazaire, Que.; Marianne Grnak, Richmond Hill, Ont.; Angela James, Thornhill, Ont.; Luce Letendre, Brossard, Que.; Karen Nystrom, Scarborough, Ont.; Laura Schuler, Scarborough, Ont.; France St. Louis, St. Hubert, Que.; Hayley Wickenheiser, Calgary; Stacy Wilson, Moncton, N.B. Coaching Staff - Head coach: Shannon Miller, Calgary; and, Assistant coaches: Melody Davidson, Castor, Alta.; Karen Hughes, Agincourt, Ont. ------------------------------ From: John_Crowley@HP-Loveland-om2.om.hp.com (John Crowley) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Where is Rheaume? Date: 12 Dec 1995 16:57:07 GMT In article , duzanb@coral.indstate.edu says... > >If anyone has any info about her current playing status, please reply to me >via email. Thanks for any help. Last I heard she was the #3 goaltender at Las Vegas of the IHL. That was last season (94-95). Any update??? John P. Crowley -- HP Loveland CA ----------- From: "Michael D. Speechley" Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Where is Rheaume? Date: 12 Dec 1995 22:17:03 GMT 'Sup folks? Yes, Rheaume is in Roller Hockey International. She plays for the New Jersey Rockin' Rollers. Occasionally. They have two steady goalies, and they bring her in to play when they have fan day and things like that. She doesn't get a whole lot of time in the crease, or at least she didn't last year. I hope she does start to play steadily again. The "First Lady Of Hockey" will rise again... Michael D. Speechley - Wheels ----------- From: az492@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Linley Wartenberg) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Where is Rheaume? Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:56:28 GMT John Crowley (John_Crowley@HP-Loveland-om2.om.hp.com) writes: >In article , >duzanb@coral.indstate.edu says... >> >>If anyone has any info about her current playing status, please reply to me >>via email. Thanks for any help. > >Last I heard she was the #3 goaltender at Las Vegas of the IHL. That was >last season (94-95). Any update??? Tried out for Raleigh (?) of ECHL. Didn't make team. Linley Wartenberg linwar@freenet.fsu.edu Seminoles, Tiger Sharks, Blues, Predators & Braves! ----------- Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) Subject: Re: Where is Rheaume? Date: 14 Dec 95 18:07:41 GMT Manon will compete for the women's Team Canada at the 1996 Pacific Rim tournament. This is a tournament between Canada, USA, China, and Japan. It will be held in the Vancouver, BC area from April 1-6, 1996. The next women's world championship will be held in Kitchener, Ontario in the spring of 1997. There will be tryouts again before the world championship. Women's hockey is an official Olympic sport for the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan. The top 5 teams from the 97 World Championship, and the host team (Japan) will compete. The final placings for the 1994 Women's World Hockey Championship (held in Lake Placid, NY) were as follows: (1) Canada (2) USA (3) Finland (4) China (5) Sweden (6) Norway (7) Switzerland (8) Germany Andria Hunter ============================================================================== | ... She shoots! ...... She scoooooores!!! | | _ __ | | ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_ | | \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\0__/ /| \__) | | /> /> \ /> . /\ ('\\---' | .| | | | z z . z z \_. z z z z \_\_\ | | | | ` ` |_/ | | TEAM CANADA - WOMEN'S WORLD ICE HOCKEY CHAMPIONS - 1990, 1992, 1994 | ============================================================================== | For women's hockey info via the world wide web: | | http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria | ============================================================================== | You can also access this info via anonymous FTP to ftp.cs.toronto.edu. | | My files are in the pub/issac/test directory. (see the README file) | ============================================================================== ----------- From: "Aurora N. Ford" Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Women in pro hockey? Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 07:44:28 -0700 Okay everyone and their dog knows about Manon Rheaume , and to a lesser extent Erin Whitten. I am also aware that Cammi Granato was a decent RHI player, although any other information on this is scarce. Last night I was watching a Whalers/ Flames game, the announcer said Gerald Diduck's sister (Judy Diduck) was playing hockey in the Swiss pro league. This came as quite a surprise, is n't that league just slightly below NHL level? Not to mention Judy Diduck is a regular player, as opposed to being a goalie. ----------- From: st94256j@post.drexel.edu Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: Women in pro hockey? Date: 16 Jan 1996 15:28:48 GMT >From: "Aurora N. Ford" >Okay everyone and their dog knows about Manon Rheaume , and to a >lesser extent Erin Whitten. I am also aware that Cammi Granato was >a decent RHI player, although any other information on this is scarce. >Last night I was watching a Whalers/ Flames game, the announcer said >Gerald Diduck's sister (Judy Diduck) was playing hockey in the Swiss >pro league. This came as quite a surprise, is n't that league just >slightly below NHL level? Not to mention Judy Diduck is a regular >player, as opposed to being a goalie. Well, Aurora, I would hardlt say that Granato was a decent RHI player, since se never actually played in a game as far as I know. Someone from Chicago please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she ever got onto the, uhm, Sportcourt surface. And, no, I wouldn't say that the Swiss pro league is "just a step" below the NHL. How many Swiss players have ever been in the NHL? What hve the Swiss done in the Olympics, or WJC or whatever? -- Frank ----------- Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: vv1@dgp.toronto.edu (Marc J. Ouellette) Subject: Manon Rheaume Traded Date: 6 Feb 96 13:01:11 GMT Just heard on the radio that Manon Rheaume has been traded from the New Jersey Rock 'n Rollers of the RHI to the Ottawa Rollerbladers, in exchange for two draft picks. Thought some of you might be interested in this info... Marc J. Ouellette (vv1@dgp.toronto.edu) Les Canadiens sont l`a! "Angry words won't stop the fight, two wrongs don't make it right" - U2 -- Info on Central Ontario Women's Hockey League: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/vv1/COWHL.html Coach and Player Profiles for University of Toronto Varsity Blues: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/vv1/VB/blues.html ----------- From: Phil Legault Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: 1996 Canadian Women's National Championship Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 15:20:02 -0800 CANADIAN HOCKEY - NEWS RELEASE http://www.canadianhockey.ca/ CONTACT - Phil Legault, plegault@hockey.cdnsport.ca Friday, March 15, 1996 A PREVIEW OF THE TEAMS AND PLAYERS EXPERIENCE KEY FACTOR AT 1996 ESSO WOMEN'S NATIONALS MONCTON (New Brunswick) - If experience playing at the Esso Women's National Hockey Championship and with the national women's team is a guide to success, then there is no doubt that Quebec, Ontario, Alberta and New Brunswick would be considered the ‘big four' of the 1996 national event. The 15th annual national championship begins Thursday, March 21 at the Moncton Coliseum, and ends with the gold medal game being broadcast live on The Sports Network (TSN) and Le Reseau des Sports (RDS), Sunday, March 24, 1996 at 12:00 noon (EST). Of the 172 players coming to Moncton for the national championship, over two thirds (115 players or 66.9%) have either played in last year's Esso Women's Nationals, represented their province at the 1995 Canada Winter Games, or took part in any national women's team event (training camp or championship) since 1990. In fact, Edmonton Chimos' forward, Alison Ramsley, is the only player to have competed in all 14 national championships since 1982, winning titles in 1984, 1985 and 1992. Looking at team make-ups, Team Quebec, national champions for the past two years, and New Brunswick's Maritime Sports Blades, 1995 silver medalists, have 18 players with national experience, while at the other end of the spectrum, the Pictou County Sobey's have youth on their side with 11 of 20 players from Nova Scotia's entry in the 1995 Canada Winter Games. Another interesting factor is the presence of 16 of 20 1996 national women's team players. The Maritime Sports Blades have three players, Ontario's North York Aeros and the Edmonton Chimos each have four, and Team Quebec sports five players. While opponents during the Esso Women's Nationals, these national team players will regroup in Vancouver for the Pacific Women's Championship from April 1-6, 1996. Canada will defend its 1995 title against the United States, China and Japan. Tickets are available through all local Moncton Esso Retailers and the Moncton Coliseum box office. ATTACHED is a brief look at the rosters of each of the nine provincial representatives at the 1996 Esso Women's National Championship. ESSO Women's National Championship SCHEDULE is also attached. A PREVIEW OF THE TEAMS AND PLAYERS - Esso Women's Nationals BRITANNIA BLUES (British Columbia) For the second year in a row the Britannia Blues of Vancouver are representing the province at the Esso Women's Nationals. The team qualified for the national event by winning the first round of the provincials with a 2-0-1 record over the Killarney Knights, and then recording three wins and one loss in the final round against the Lightning. Nine Blues players were with the squad at the 1995 Esso Women's Nationals, along with veteran coach Nandor Jeszenszky, plus another two players have national team experience. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Britannia Blues Round-Robin Record: 3-1-0 (2nd Group A) Quarter-Finals: Loss - Ontario 4 B.C. 2 Game for 5th place: Won - B.C. 4 Saskatchewan 1 Final Standing: 5th EDMONTON CHIMOS (Alberta) The Edmonton Chimos return to the Esso Women's Nationals after a one-year hiatus. The Chimos have attended 13 national championships, returning with a medal each time. They compete in the Northern Alberta Ladies Hockey League with their home ice in the town of Calmar. Although Edmonton was knocked out of the national tournament by Calgary in 1995, six of its players joined the Classics for the 1995 championship, including Alison Ramsley who has not missed a single event since the first in 1982. On the international scene, many Chimos have represented Canada. At the U.S. Olympic Festival, Tina Kristensen and Fiona Smith represented Canada on the select national team, and Shirley Cameron, Dawn McGuire, Judy Diduck and Jane Robinson have all returned with gold medals from World Championships. Edmonton is sending four of its players to compete on Canada's 1996 national team to compete in the upcoming Pacific Women's Championship - defenders Fiona Smith and Judy Diduck, and forwards Melanie Haz and Hayley Wickenheiser. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Calgary Classics Round-Robin Record: 4-0-0 (1st Group A) Semi-Finals: Loss - New Brunswick 2 Alberta 1 Game for 3rd place: Won - Alberta 3 Ontario 0 Final Standing: 3rd TEAM SASKATCHEWAN Saskatchewan is going the all-star route for the 1996 Esso Women's Nationals, with player selection coming from across the province. Team Saskatchewan is hoping to move into the top five this year. They will be looking to such players as Julie Foster from Regina, Kelly Bechard from Sedley, Heather Piper of Saskatoon, Josett Babineau from Regina, and Lorenda Beuker a goalie from Humboldt to lift the squad. Bechard was also invited to the 1996 national team evaluation camp. The Saskatchewan team also has a wealth of youth , with six players from the 1995 Canada Winter Games Team. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Regina Sharks Round-Robin Record: 1-3-0 (3rd in Group A) Quarter-Finals: Loss - New Brunswick 4 Saskatchewan 0 Game for 5th place: Loss - B.C. 4 Saskatchewan 1 Final Standing: 6th WINNIPEG SWEAT CAMP STORM (Manitoba) The Winnipeg Sweat Camp Storm are returning to the national championship for their third consecutive year, having won the provincial title in a hard fought battle with the University of Manitoba Lady Bisons. Ten veterans of the 1995 national competition are back on the roster, and they have added some youth with three players from Manitoba 1995 Canada Winter Games squad. Laura Vanderhorst, who was invited out for the national women's team in 1994 and 1995, was also added to the line-up. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Winnipeg Sweat Camp Storm Round-Robin Record: 0-3-0 (4th in Group B) Game for 7th place: Won - Manitoba 5 PEI 2 Final Standing: 7th NORTH YORK AEROS (Ontario) The North York Aeros return to the 1996 national championship after having lost the 1995 provincial title to the Mississauga Chiefs. The Aeros were provincial champions for six consecutive years from 1989 to 1994, including national titles in 1991 and 1993. The Aeros play in the six team Central Ontario Women's Hockey League. The league includes teams from London, Hamilton, Peterborough, Mississauga, Toronto and North York. The Aeros current roster has four players who will line-up for Canada at the 1996 Pacific Women's Championship in April, and another member who has played for Team Finland (Sari Krooks). Cassie Campbell, Marianne Grnak, Laura Schuler and Geraldine Heaney have been named to the 1996 national women's team, while another eight players attended the ‘96 team training camp or represented the country at a World Championship. Heaney is a three-time world gold medalist. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Mississauga Chiefs Round-Robin Record: 1-1-1 (3rd in Group B) Quarter-Finals: Won - Ontario 4 B.C. 2 Semi-Finals: Loss - Quebec 3 Ontario 2 (OT) Bronze Medal: Loss - Alberta 3 Ontario 0 Final Standing: 4th TEAM QUEBEC Team Quebec, represented by a provincial squad, have been gold medalists at the Esso National Championship for the past two years. They defeated New Brunswick's Maritime Sports Blades 5-2 in the 1995 final. The team selection process started in August with a camp of 60 players, 30 of these were named to a pool of players before the final selection at the end of February. Under veteran head coach, Daniele Sauvageau and assistants Dominique Boivin and Annie Bergeron, the team has played exhibition games or practiced twice a month since August. Most recently, they beat Russia and tied the United States 1-1 at the Montreal Cup. This year's squad features 15 veterans from the 1995 gold medal team, and four 1996 national women's team members. Of 21 players, only three players have no national team or national championship experience. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Team Quebec Round-Robin Record: 3-0-0 (1st in Group B) Semi-Finals: Won - Quebec 3 Ontario 2 (OT) Gold Medal: Won - Quebec 5 New Brunswick 2 Final Standing: 1st MARITIME SPORTS BLADES (New Brunswick) New Brunswick is represented again by the Maritime Sports Blades at the Esso Women's Hockey Championship. They automatically qualified as the lone senior "A" female hockey team in the province. The hometown Sports Blades made great strides in 1995, upsetting the Calgary Classics 2-1 in the semi-finals before losing 5-2 to Team Quebec in the gold medal game, putting them in the medal round for an historic first time. The New Brunswick squad placed fifth in 1994. With the addition of four members of last year's 1995 Canada Games Team, the Blades have a good blend of veteran and young players. Of 20 players, only four did not compete in the 1995 Esso Women's Nationals. The team is led by national team members Stacy Wilson, Rebecca Fahey and Therese Brisson, who won gold with Team Quebec in 1995. 1994 Team Canada member Lesley Reddon, who was selected top goalkeeper at the 1995 Esso Nationals, will backstop the Blades. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Maritime Sports Blades Round-Robin Record: 1-1-1 (2nd in Group B) Quarter-Finals: Won - New Brunswick 4 Saskatchewan 0 Semi-Finals: Won -New Brunswick 2 Alberta 1 Gold Medal: Loss - Quebec 5 New Brunswick 2 Final Standing: 2nd PICTOU COUNTY SOBEY'S (Nova Scotia) The Pictou County Sobey's team is into its first year of operation. Using past Canada Winter Games personnel as a core, they have added additional players from the area. Eleven of 20 players were on the eighth place Nova Scotia team at the Canada Winter Games in Grande Prairie, Alberta. Under the coaching of Brenda Ryan, who was an assistant coach with the 1995 Nova Scotia Canada Games team , this team has dominated the Senior Women's league in Nova Scotia. The Pictou County team arrived at the 1996 nationals by defeating last year's provincial representative, the Metro Valley Selects, in a close and hard fought two out of three final series. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: Metro Valley Selects Round-Robin Record: 1-3-0 (5th in Group A) Final Standing: 9th PEI ESSO TIGERS (PEI) Prince Edward Island hosted the 1995 Esso Women's Nationals and has spent the last twelve months developing its program in hopes of improving their eighth place performance in 1996. The team again is under the guidance of Jim Clarke and Wendell Bassett, and has ten returning players. Key players back on the squad include Karen Johnson, Tracey Noles, Connie Brennan, Linda Irving, and Joanne Weeks. As well, the P.E.I. team has added eight new faces - and three of those players were on PEI's 1995 Canada Games squad. While the Tigers lacks a women's league in which to play, they concentrated on exhibition games against bantam, midget, and men's recreational teams, and they have had the opportunity to play six games against the Moncton Sports Blades. 1995 Esso Women's Nationals Summary Team: PEI Esso Tigers Round-Robin Record: 1-3-0 (4th in Group A) Game for 7th place: Loss - Manitoba 5 PEI 2 Final Standing: 8th 1996 ESSO WOMEN'S NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP Moncton, New Brunswick Pool A - Quebec, Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, Nova Scotia Pool B - New Brunswick, Ontario, Saskatchewan, Prince Edward Island THURSDAY, MARCH 21, 1996 1 Levesque Quebec vs Nova Scotia 8:00 am 2 Coliseum B.C. vs Manitoba 8:30 am 3 Coliseum Saskatchewan vs New Brunswick 10:30 am 4 Coliseum Nova Scotia vs Alberta 1:30 pm 5 Levesque Manitoba vs Quebec 2:00 pm 6 Coliseum Ontario vs Saskatchewan 3:30 pm Coliseum Opening Ceremonies 5:45 pm 7 Coliseum New Brunswick vs P.E.I. 6:30 pm 8 Coliseum Alberta vs B.C. 8:30 pm FRIDAY, MARCH 22, 1996 9 Levesque Nova Scotia vs Manitoba 8:00 am 10 Coliseum Ontario vs P.E.I. 9:00 am 11 Coliseum Quebec vs B.C. 11:30 am 12 Levesque Manitoba vs Alberta 1:00 pm 13 Coliseum P.E.I. vs Saskatchewan 2:00 pm 14 Coliseum B.C. vs Nova Scotia 4:00 pm 15 Coliseum Alberta vs Quebec 6:00 pm 16 Coliseum New Brunswick vs Ontario 8:00 pm SATURDAY, MARCH 23, 1996 17 Coliseum 2nd Pool A vs 3rd Pool B 8:00 am 18 Coliseum 2nd Pool B vs 3rd Pool A 10:00 am 19 Coliseum PLAYOFF for 7th - 8th 4th Pool A vs 4th Pool B 12:00 pm 20 Coliseum SEMIFINAL 1st Pool B vs Winner Game #17 2:00 pm 21 Coliseum SEMIFINAL 1st Pool A vs Winner Game #18 4:00 pm SUNDAY MARCH, 24, 1996 22 Coliseum PLAYOFF for 5th - 6th Losers Game #17 vs Game #18 8:00 am 23 Coliseum BRONZE MEDAL Losers Game #20 vs Game #21 10:00 am 24 Coliseum GOLD MEDAL Winners Game #20 vs Game #21 1:00 pm ----------- From: lmecano@lme.ericsson.se Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: 1996 Canadian Women's National Championship Date: 17 Mar 1996 10:58:06 GMT Cool that someone more then me here is interested in women's hockey !!! Our ladiesteam won the swedish national league trophy last weekend ! //Sandra lmezbar@lme.ericsson.se ----------- From: "Marissa L. Douglas" Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: girls hockey Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:23:14 -0600 Organization: Dalhousie University I play hockey in a girls league (college). Why are the coaches and officials always trying to discourage us from checking???? I mean checking is part of the game! If men can check men, why are women discouraged from checking women? I mean we're not going to break! Isn't this sexist? I mean, its not like there were 220 pound men crunching 130 pound women! We're all roughly the same size. And don't say it doesn't happen. The refs and league officials call many more penalties for checking. It is discouraged. I bet if women ran the league it would be more accepted. Its a sexist male thing. I will continue to check and check HARD! -Mari From: larry@pronet.mpro.net (Larry Motylinski) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 20:04:15 GMT Organization: Prophet Systems "Marissa L. Douglas" wrote: >I play hockey in a girls league (college). Why are the coaches and >officials always trying to discourage us from checking???? >I mean checking is part of the game! If men can check men, why are women >discouraged from checking women? I mean we're not going to break! >Isn't this sexist? I mean, its not like there were 220 pound men >crunching 130 pound women! We're all roughly the same size. >And don't say it doesn't happen. The refs and league officials call >many more penalties for checking. It is discouraged. I bet if women ran >the league it would be more accepted. Its a sexist male thing. I will >continue to check and check HARD! >-Mari I bet you've never been one of those pretty girls in the stands that most of the men would rather be watching. :-) Go Red Wings - the last game of this series is tonight. From: solrbear@ix.netcom.com(SOLAR BEAR ) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 26 Apr 1996 22:34:25 GMT Organization: Netcom In <4lra8o$727@news.3lefties.com> larry@pronet.mpro.net (Larry Motylinski) writes: >I bet you've never been one of those pretty girls in the stands that >most of the men would rather be watching. :-) > >Go Red Wings - the last game of this series is tonight. To Larry: Are you saying we can't play hockey AND be attractive at the same time? Not all "pretty girls" sit around in the stands waiting for men like you to watch us. Some of us play the sports we like without regards to what other people think we should be doing. I play goal in a "men's" league since we don't have women's hockey here and I've had more men (including several associated with pro hockey) watch me on the ice than "pretty girls" in the stands. We can be pretty AND smart AND athletic. To Marissa: Keep playing and checking. A lot of us are in agreement with you. Solar Bear #30 From: "Doug Norris (The Mad Kobold)" Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 27 Apr 1996 04:44:57 GMT Organization: Graduate Student, Math Department, University of Colorado solrbear@ix.netcom.com(SOLAR BEAR ) wrote: >Are you saying we can't play hockey AND be attractive at the same time? >Not all "pretty girls" sit around in the stands waiting for men like >you to watch us. Some of us play the sports we like without regards to >what other people think we should be doing. I play goal in a "men's" >league since we don't have women's hockey here and I've had more men >(including several associated with pro hockey) watch me on the ice than >"pretty girls" in the stands. We can be pretty AND smart AND athletic. Definately. When I play goaltender at CU drop-in, it always seems as though the 3-4 women who show up play a better overall brand of hockey; of course this is from a goaltender's perspective so I'm referring to things important to me i.e. clearing the puck from the defensive zone, backchecking, clearing the slot, etc. They seem to work harder than the men, who are usually just trying to show off. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Douglas Todd Norris (norrisdt@euclid.colorado.edu) "The Mad Kobold" Hockey Goaltender Home Page: http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~norrisdt/goalie.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's a UNIX system. It shows you what to do." -Jurassic Park From: Jessica Strelitz Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:21:55 -0400 Organization: Sophomore, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.hockey: 26-Apr-96 Re: girls hockey by Larry Motylinski@pronet. >I play hockey in a girls league (college). Why are the coaches and >> officials always trying to discourage us from checking???? >> I mean checking is part of the game! If men can check men, why are women >> discouraged from checking women? I mean we're not going to break! > >> Isn't this sexist? I mean, its not like there were 220 pound men >> crunching 130 pound women! We're all roughly the same size. > >> And don't say it doesn't happen. The refs and league officials call >> many more penalties for checking. It is discouraged. I bet if women ran >> the league it would be more accepted. Its a sexist male thing. I will >> continue to check and check HARD! Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.hockey: 26-Apr-96 Re: girls hockey by Larry Motylinski@pronet. >I bet you've never been one of those pretty girls in the stands that >most of the men would rather be watching. :-) Hey Larry--i bet you've never played a game of hockey in your fucking life. If you want to post sexist shit like this- do it direct, don't make the rest of the women in hockey have to be subjected to it. Just because we play, does not by any means mean we are NOT BEAUTIFUL, if anything we are more beautiful. This is why so many girls don't want to even start playing hockey, because men who are active participants so often judge what is on the outside. I could beat the hell out of any man any day and skate circles around many, and I'm still damned good looking. Just ask the men's team I work out with. Jess Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: vv1@dgp.toronto.edu (Marc J. Ouellette) Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 27 Apr 96 18:30:50 GMT "Marissa L. Douglas" wrote: > I play hockey in a girls league (college). Why are the coaches and >officials always trying to discourage us from checking???? > I mean checking is part of the game! If men can check men, why are women >discouraged from checking women? I mean we're not going to break! Well, I think it has to do with the risk of injuries. In most male adult recreational leagues (at least, in the Toronto area), there is no body checking allowed either. I think the reasoning is that most people play for fun and have full-time jobs and thus don't want to risk injury. I think that there is body checking mostly in leagues that can lead to a professional hockey career (e.g., bantam boys, junior hockey, high school hockey, college hockey, university hockey). BTW, people do break, even those big NHL boys. Did you see Pat Peake breaking his heel when he was checked into the boards last night? Ouch! In women's hockey, there is currently no professional league (with or without body checking). Even at the highest level (world championships, olympics, international competitions) body checking has been eliminated. A varying amount of body contact is allowed. I have seen lots of very physical hockey in the Central Ontario Women's Hockey League (this league is the highest calibre of women's hockey in Ontario). I think one of the motivations in eliminating body checking was to avoid the inevitable comparison between the men's and the women's game. The women's game is simply different, but it is nonetheless highly skilled, very entertaining, and very competitive. Women don't have to be able to compete against men to validate their game. After all, should the average guy playing fun hockey be able to take a body check from an Eric Lindros in order to make his hockey "real hockey?" I hope not, or I'm toast:-) larry@pronet.mpro.net (Larry Motylinski) replied to Marissa: >I bet you've never been one of those pretty girls in the stands that >most of the men would rather be watching. :-) I bet you've never been one of those pretty boys in the stands who has never seen women play hockey. :-) >Go Red Wings - the last game of this series is tonight. Didn't know it was a best of 5;-) Marc -- Marc J. Ouellette (vv1@dgp.toronto.edu) Les Canadiens sont l`a! "Angry words won't stop the fight, two wrongs don't make it right" - U2 -- Info on Central Ontario Women's Hockey League: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/vv1/COWHL.html Coach and Player Profiles for University of Toronto Varsity Blues: http://www.dgp.toronto.edu/people/vv1/VB/blues.html From: billy@cafe.net Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 27 Apr 1996 22:00:34 GMT Organization: I need to put my ORGANIZATION here. In article <199604261323178458.MD904781@caper1.uccb.ns.ca>, Marissa L. Douglas wrote: >I play hockey in a girls league (college). Why are the coaches and >officials always trying to discourage us from checking???? >And don't say it doesn't happen. The refs and league officials call >many more penalties for checking. It is discouraged. I bet if women ran >the league it would be more accepted. Its a sexist male thing. I will >continue to check and check HARD! "Gotta outdo men at everything. Gotta do whatever those testosterone-bloated pigs can do." Sounds like the typical rantings of a naively arrogant, yet insecure female college student. Women probably either do run the league or have a large say in these matters. But they probably set these rules with some of the safety issues in mind, and quite wisely so, likely combined with their concerns of bruising their pretty faces or messing up their hair. (hehe) It's not like any of these girls are going to make the professional leagues anyways. Therefore, it makes it that much less worthwhile to undergo the risk of serious injury. Besides, all this rough play by women seems totally staged and about as phony as two female goats headbutting each other. (Biopsychology 101, anyone?) Maybe you should give yourself some time to outgrow these juvenile hyperfeminist ideals of yours and replace them with some factual knowledge and life experiences. And please, spare us the "sexist male conspiracy" theories. -Bill K. p.s. Better factually correct than "politically correct". From: John Alway Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:04:26 -0500 Organization: Internet Connect Services, Inc. Jessica Strelitz wrote: >This is why so many girls don't want to even start playing hockey, >because men who are active participants so often judge what is on the >outside. I could beat the hell out of any man any day and skate circles >around many, and I'm still damned good looking. I love the beauty of that grammatical transition. From: Girls don't play, because men judge them by their looks. To: I could beat the hell out of any man. To: I'm damned good looking. Well done, Jessica. I can see that you have some very clear views. :-) You know, I'd love to see women's hockey if they'd all wear string bikinis. That'd be fun. :-) Hey, I'm a man, so I judge what's on the outside. Keeps the girls off the ice, u-no. Err, please don't hurt me. :-) Beautiful. :-) ...John From: Matt Cundill Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 17:42:08 -0700 Organization: Worldgate Marissa L. Douglas wrote: > I play hockey in a girls league (college). Why are the coaches and > officials always trying to discourage us from checking???? > I mean checking is part of the game! If men can check men, why are women > discouraged from checking women? I mean we're not going to break! > Isn't this sexist? I mean, its not like there were 220 pound men > crunching 130 pound women! We're all roughly the same size. > > And don't say it doesn't happen. The refs and league officials call > many more penalties for checking. It is discouraged. I bet if women ran > the league it would be more accepted. Its a sexist male thing. I will > continue to check and check HARD! As a one-time official of Women's hockey I think that checking is discouraged because of the varying ability levels of the players. I see a large difference in the abilites of players; some have been playing for five years while others are just starting. The sport is growing at a rapid rate and about ten years from now, I expect that there will be contact and non-contact leagues for women. As a side story... I was getting ready to drop the puck and the center was a major flirt. She asked if we could go for a quicky after the game. There was no quicky but I wound up dating her for three months. Matt From: John Alway Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:49:04 -0500 Organization: Internet Connect Services, Inc. solrbear@ix.netcom.com(SOLAR BEAR ) wrote: >Are you saying we can't play hockey AND be attractive at the same time? >Not all "pretty girls" sit around in the stands waiting for men like >you to watch us. Some of us play the sports we like without regards to >what other people think we should be doing. I play goal in a "men's" >league since we don't have women's hockey here and I've had more men >(including several associated with pro hockey) watch me on the ice than >"pretty girls" in the stands. We can be pretty AND smart AND athletic. I'm with you on this one, Solar Bear. Woman can be all of those things, and often are. I certainly don't stereotype them that way. I'm happy to see them in such activities. I do have one stereotype of woman, however, and that is that they are generally smaller, weaker and slower than men. Also, they're much softer. :-) And, frankly, that's the way I like it. ...John He shoots! He scores!!!! Yay!!! Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) Subject: Re: girls hockey Organization: Dept of Computer Science, University of Toronto Date: 29 Apr 96 23:32:54 GMT Jessica Strelitz (jsgd+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: >This is why so many girls don't want to even start playing hockey, >because men who are active participants so often judge what is on the >outside. I could beat the hell out of any man any day and skate circles >around many, and I'm still damned good looking. I really hope that everyone doesn't think that all women hockey players have this attitude. I've played for Team Canada at two world championships (92 and 94), and I'd be the first to admit that there are many men who are much better than me ... men that don't even play at the professional or college level! I may have better stick skills, but they just have much more muscle mass than me, so it would be pretty difficult to compete with them. In justifying that women have a chance of making it to the NHL, people often compare women hockey players to Fleury of the Calgary Flames. They argue that because he's 160 lbs, 5'6" and is able to play in the NHL, then that should mean that women also have a good chance of making the NHL. I think it makes more sense to make strength comparisons. I'd be willing to bet that Fleury could bench press 200 lbs or maybe even more ... it'd be pretty hard to find a 5'6" woman who could do the same! I'm 5'6" and 140 lbs, but the most I've ever benched is only 140 lbs ... that's above average for women, but not close to what the weakest NHL guy could do! I think it's very unlikely that a female would make it into the NHL as anything other than a goalie. The physical differences are just too great. We would never expect a woman to run a 100 metre sprint as fast as a man, so it's very unlikely that a woman would ever make it to the NHL. BTW, although Fleury is 5'6 and 160 which is very small for an NHL guy. There was only one woman on the 1992 Canadian national team who was bigger than him!! Here are the size stats: NAME POS HT WT 1991-92 Team / Hometown ___________________________________________________________________________ Geraldine Heaney RD 5'8 140 Toronto Aeros / Weston, ON Nathalie Rivard LD 5'7 165 Toronto Aeros / Cumberland, ON Heather Ginzel LW 5'7 130 Toronto Aeros / Brampton, ON Andria Hunter C 5'6 138 University of Toronto / Peterborough, ON Angela James C 5'6 155 Toronto Aeros / Thornhill, ON Karen Nystrom RW 5'5 136 Scarborough FireFighters / Scarborough, ON Sue Scherer LW 5'4 140 Guelph Eagles / Kitchener, ON Laura Schuler C 5'6 138 Northeastern University / Scarborough, ON Margot Verlaan C 5'5 135 Toronto Aeros / Kitchener, ON Manon Rheaume G 5'7 144 Les Jaguars de Louiseville / Lac Beauport, PQ Marie-Claude Roy G 5'3 140 Ladies Stingers / Montreal, PQ Diane Michaud LD 5'6 155 Sherbrooke / Ste-Foy, PQ Nathalie Picard LD 5'3 149 Sherbrooke / Saint-Hilaire, PQ Nancy Drolet LW 5'6 130 Sherbrooke / Drummondville, PQ Danielle Goyette RW 5'6 133 Sherbrooke / Ste-Foy, PQ France St. Louis C 5'9 140 Les 4 Glaces Brossard / St. Hubert, PQ Judy Diduck LD 5'7 150 Edmonton Chimos / Sherwood Park, AB Dawn McGuire LD 5'3 125 Edmonton Chimos / Edmonton, AB France Montour RW 5'6 136 Edmonton Chimos / Edmonton, AB Stacy Wilson LW 5'4 125 T and R Sports / Moncton, NB Matt Cundill (mauler@worldgate.com) wrote: >Marissa L. Douglas wrote: > >>And don't say it doesn't happen. The refs and league officials call >>many more penalties for checking. It is discouraged. I bet if women ran >>the league it would be more accepted. Its a sexist male thing. I will >>continue to check and check HARD! > >As a one-time official of Women's hockey I think that checking is >discouraged because of the varying ability levels of the players. I see a >large difference in the abilities of players; some have been playing for >five years while others are just starting. The sport is growing at a >rapid rate and about ten years from now, I expect that there will be >contact and non-contact leagues for women. I'm not sure where you were officiating, but in Ontario, there are many different levels and divisions of women's hockey... CATEGORY AGE Senior AA, A, B, C, D, HL open age Masters 35 and older Senior Rec 20 and over Intermediate A, B, C, HL 20 and under Midget A, B, C, HL 17 and under Bantam A, B, C, HL 15 and under PeeWee A, B, C, HL 13 and under Atom A, B, C, HL 11 and under Novice A, B, C, HL 9 and under Tyke 7 and under The ability levels of the players within each of these divisions is quite uniform because there are so many different divisions. I think this is especially true at the higher levels of competition (i.e., Senior AA), and they still have not separated our league into contact and non-contact. So, I'd have to disagree with you. The varying abilities of the players is probably not why body checking is disallowed. Marc J. Ouellette (vv1@dgp.toronto.edu) wrote: >I think one of the motivations in eliminating body checking was to >avoid the inevitable comparison between the men's and the women's >game. The women's game is simply different, but it is nonetheless >highly skilled, very entertaining, and very competitive. Women don't >have to be able to compete against men to validate their game. After >all, should the average guy playing fun hockey be able to take a body >check from an Eric Lindros in order to make his hockey "real hockey?" >I hope not, or I'm toast:-) I tend to agree with Marc (I'd better ... he's my boyfriend! :-)) in that a motivation may be that they want to keep a distinction between men and women's hockey. It's true that women's hockey does not lead to a professional hockey playing career, however, I'm not sure how relevant that is. It does seem quite possible that they may have decided to remove body checking because of the injury factor. I don't think they're trying to say that the women can't take the hitting (it's simply not true) ... I think it's just that they think it's an unnecessary risk that doesn't take or add much to the game anyways. Another reason that I can think of for possibly wanting to remove body checking from the women's game, is to make its image more appealing. Because of the common untrue stereotypes that "hockey is only for guys" and "women who play hockey are butches," I think there may be a lot of parents who are a little hesitant to let their daughters play hockey. However by removing body checking, perhaps it makes the sport more appealing to the parents. But I guess this still doesn't explain why body checking could not be allowed at the highest level of women's hockey. Just for your information, body checking used to be allowed at the international level. In 1990 full body checking was allowed at the women's (first ever) world championship. At the 1992 world championship a lesser degree of body checking was allowed, and in 1994 they decided to remove it completely (and for the 1997 world championship). I should add that although there is no body checking, the game is still quite physical. Body contact is allowed. I did play in a women's hockey league in Switzerland for the 92-93 season, and interestingly enough, they do have body checking in women's hockey there! Here in Canada and in the USA, it has been removed from the women's game at all levels. I'm not sure if body checking is allowed in other countries. Bill K (billy@cafe.net) wrote: >Besides, all this rough play by women seems totally staged and about >as phony as two female goats headbutting each other. (Biopsychology >101, anyone?) You'd be surprised, Bill. Tempers do flare in women's hockey. It's a completive sport, so it's to be expected. I really don't think it's a male/female thing. I think it's a pretty natural reaction to a competitive situation. Before I end this message, I thought I'd announce that the 1997 Women's World Championship will be held in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. This event will definitely sell out. Ticket information is available on my web pages (see the 1997 WWC page). Phone (519)745-0303 to order tickets. The eight countries that have qualified are Canada, USA, China, Sweden, Russia, Finland, Norway, and Switzerland. The 1997 World Championship will serve as a qualifier for the 1998 Olympics. 1998 is the first year that women's hockey will be an Olympic sport. Andria Hunter ============================================================================== | ... She shoots! ...... She scoooooores!!! | | _ __ | | ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_ | | \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\0__/ /| \__) | | /> /> \ /> . /\ ('\\---' | .| | | | z z . z z \_. z z z z \_\_\ | | | | ` ` |_/ | | TEAM CANADA - WOMEN'S WORLD ICE HOCKEY CHAMPIONS - 1990, 1992, 1994 | ============================================================================== | For women's hockey info via the world wide web: | | http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria | ============================================================================== From: Jessica Strelitz Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 23:47:46 -0400 Organization: Sophomore, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.hockey: 29-Apr-96 Re: girls hockey by Andria L. Hunter@sys.tor >Jessica Strelitz (jsgd+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote: > >>This is why so many girls don't want to even start playing hockey, >>because men who are active participants so often judge what is on the >>outside. I could beat the hell out of any man any day and skate circles >>around many, and I'm still damned good looking. > >I really hope that everyone doesn't think that all women hockey players >have this attitude. I've played for Team Canada at two world >championships (92 and 94), and I'd be the first to admit that there are >many men who are much better than me ... men that don't even play at >the professional or college level! I may have better stick skills, but >they just have much more muscle mass than me, so it would be pretty >difficult to compete with them. This wasn't my point at at all, it was to discourage a sexist remark--about only the pretty girls sitting on the sidelines and having men ogle them in hockey. I played for an extremely sexist team in college adn turned their feelings about women in hockey around, that was my intention--not to advocate the use of womne in NHL caliber play. I recognize that our bodies do not allow us to perform at that level, just as i have a difficult time as a center at 5'5", 130. -Jessica O o `/~> #88 Agressive by nature, hockey by choice ...(\..... ''''''````' Pitt Lacrosse Goalie 94-95-96 WCLL Ranked #1 Club Lacrosse From: ae684@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Foulds) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 30 Apr 1996 15:02:22 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Andria L. Hunter (andria@sys.toronto.edu) writes: >You'd be surprised, Bill. Tempers do flare in women's hockey. It's >a completive sport, so it's to be expected. I really don't think it's >a male/female thing. I think it's a pretty natural reaction to a >competitive situation. Having just watched a number of games at the Ontario Provincials here in Ottawa, I can vouch for this statement. The animosity of some teams for each other was incredible. And, although checking isn't allowed, there were usually two or three thunderous hits a game. Sure, they got penalties, but a few of them would have made rock'em-sock'em videos. The worst hit I ever took was in University intramurals. I was killing the puck against the boards while the clock ran down the final seconds of the game. Next think I know I hear this load thud, which is of course me hitting the boards. I'm horizontal on the ice and looking up to recognize a girl I had the hots for standing over me. I had to laugh. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Foulds ae684@freenet.carleton.ca Westboro, Ontario, Canada ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 30 Apr 96 15:10:16 GMT Just following up on my last message... andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) writes: >In justifying that women have a chance of making it to the NHL, people >often compare women hockey players to Fleury of the Calgary Flames. >They argue that because he's 160 lbs, 5'6" and is able to play in >the NHL, then that should mean that women also have a good chance of >making the NHL. I think it makes more sense to make strength comparisons. >I'd be willing to bet that Fleury could bench press 200 lbs or maybe >even more ... it'd be pretty hard to find a 5'6" woman who could do the >same! I'm 5'6" and 140 lbs, but the most I've ever benched is only >140 lbs ... that's above average for women, but not close to what the >weakest NHL guy could do! I think it's very unlikely that a female >would make it into the NHL as anything other than a goalie. The physical >differences are just too great. We would never expect a woman to run a >100 metre sprint as fast as a man, so it's very unlikely that a woman >would ever make it to the NHL. I just wanted to stress that although women are unlikely to make it into the NHL, it doesn't take anything away from the women's game. It is a very exciting and extremely skilled game. The athletes are very committed to their sport, as is the case with men's hockey. It is just not as fast as the men's game. >BTW, although Fleury is 5'6 and 160 which is very small for an NHL guy. >There was only one woman on the 1994 Canadian national team who was >bigger than him!! Here are the size stats: Ooops, I posted the 1992 Canadian women's national team although I said that I was posting the 1994 team. Sorry 'bout that. The team listed for each player was her 91-92 team. Andria Hunter ============================================================================== | ... She shoots! ...... She scoooooores!!! | | _ __ | | ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_ | | \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\0__/ /| \__) | | /> /> \ /> . /\ ('\\---' | .| | | | z z . z z \_. z z z z \_\_\ | | | | ` ` |_/ | | TEAM CANADA - WOMEN'S WORLD ICE HOCKEY CHAMPIONS - 1990, 1992, 1994 | ============================================================================== | For women's hockey info via the world wide web: | | http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria | ============================================================================== From: garry@mda.ca (Garry Holmen) Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 30 Apr 1996 20:52:11 GMT Organization: MacDonald Dettwiler, 13800 Commerce Parkway, Richmond, BC, Canada V6V 2J3 Andria L. Hunter (andria@sys.toronto.edu) wrote: : : making the NHL. I think it makes more sense to make strength comparisons. : I'd be willing to bet that Fleury could bench press 200 lbs or maybe : even more ... it'd be pretty hard to find a 5'6" woman who could do the : same! I'm 5'6" and 140 lbs, but the most I've ever benched is only : 140 lbs ... that's above average for women, but not close to what the : weakest NHL guy could do! I think it's very unlikely that a female As a powerlifter I can quote a few women who fall in that category (or close enough to it.) Tamara Grimwood has benched 400+ lbs at 180 lbs body weight, Paula Suzuki has benched 350+ as has Debbie Earney and both of the latter two women are around 150 lbs. Mary Jefferies has lifted 315+ lbs in the 148 lb class as well. Another point of reference is from the IPF world games where the heaviest bench for the 148 lb class was 248 and the lightest was 198. But your point is well made... heck the main reason why I didn't go any farther then Juniour B is because of my size at that age. 6' and 160 lbs isn't that large nor strong in the game of hockey... alas now I'm 200 and that isn't a problem anymore. But if you haven't made it in hockey by the time your 16 it's unlikely you have the skills or the size to be at the NHL level. For someone to overlook the size limitations the skills have to be there in excess. And that's one of the few reasons why Fleury is in the NHL... his scoring and playmaking abilities are far above average (if not near the top of the league.) : Another reason that I can think of for possibly wanting to remove body : checking from the women's game, is to make its image more appealing. : Because of the common untrue stereotypes that "hockey is only for guys" : and "women who play hockey are butches," I think there may be a lot of : parents who are a little hesitant to let their daughters play hockey. : However by removing body checking, perhaps it makes the sport more : appealing to the parents. But I guess this still doesn't explain : why body checking could not be allowed at the highest level of women's : hockey. Exactly... body checking should be introduced slowly into womens hockey as the women progress in age and ability levels. The highest level of hockey for women should include body checking... this would go along way to disprove the myth that women are too fragile for this sort of thing. Good luck with your hockey career Andria. Garry From: billy@cafe.net Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey Subject: Re: girls hockey Date: 1 May 1996 02:03:25 GMT Organization: I need to put my ORGANIZATION here. In article <1996Apr29.193254.4801@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, Andria L. Hunter wrote: >have this attitude. I've played for Team Canada at two world >championships (92 and 94), and I'd be the first to admit that there are >many men who are much better than me ... men that don't even play at >the professional or college level! I may have better stick skills, but >they just have much more muscle mass than me, so it would be pretty >difficult to compete with them. >would make it into the NHL as anything other than a goalie. The physical >differences are just too great. We would never expect a woman to run a >100 metre sprint as fast as a man, so it's very unlikely that a woman >would ever make it to the NHL. Finally a voice of reason and a good dose of reality from somebody who's been there and done it all (ie. play at the top level available to women). It's good to see some (at least one anyways) of the women here have overcome the obstacles (both social and biological) and achieved such a commendable feat. You seem to speak mostly out of wisdom and experience instead of assumption, ignorance, and jealosy, as demonstrated by some of the others here. >You'd be surprised, Bill. Tempers do flare in women's hockey. It's >a completive sport, so it's to be expected. I really don't think it's >a male/female thing. I think it's a pretty natural reaction to a >competitive situation. You're probably quite right. I guess it is something expected out of a truly competitive situation, and a true indicator of the teams' character and commitment to the game, and applies to both men and women, although the aggressive play is probably more pronounced in men due to both hormonal and cultural influences. I would even guess that most women's teams play with a lot more grit and passion than this year's incarnation of the Vancouver Canucks. (Yes, I'm a disgruntled fan.) ;) Furthermore, it's good to see you thought over your reply well and did not resort to flaming. Quite honestly, when I posted my last article, I was anticipating a barrage of hostile responses from zealous feminists in this newsgroup. It's nice to know some of us can still respond rationally. >Before I end this message, I thought I'd announce that the 1997 Women's >World Championship will be held in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. This >event will definitely sell out. Ticket information is available on Sorry, I won't be able to make it. But I'm sure your team will do very well and win the gold. Good luck. -Bill K. Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: Vern Faulkner Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 20:55:26 -0700 Subject: Re: girls hockey Organization: Quando Omni Flatutis Morti (472-8313) GH> But your point is well made... heck the main reason why I didn't go GH> any farther then Juniour B is because of my size at that age. 6' and GH> 160 lbs isn't that large nor strong in the game of hockey... alas now GH> I'm 200 and that isn't a problem anymore. But if you haven't made it Size is *everything*. The local Junior "B" squad (Saanich Braves) played their nearest equals (Ridge Meadows Flames) in the provincial semi-finals. They were about as equally talented, with the Flames having a more skilled defense, the Braves having better goaltending, and the forwards being about equal. The difference? Size. The Flames were monsters - and the extra size was the difference in the three-game series. Size is *everything*. I think I'm finally going to compensate for my parent's lack of vision. Tomorrow I am going out to buy a pair of ice skats, and maybe spend some bucks and learn how to. What the hell. I love hockey, I might as well learn how to play... but let me learn how to skate first, eh? Maybe at 6'1" I might make a half-decent defenseman in a few years. :) GH> in excess. And that's one of the few reasons why Fleury is in the NHL... GH> his scoring and playmaking abilities are far above average (if not near GH> the top of the league.) His heart means he plays MUCH bigger than on paper. Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey From: andria@sys.toronto.edu (Andria L. Hunter) Subject: Re: girls hockey Organization: Dept of Computer Science, University of Toronto Date: 1 May 96 22:45:15 GMT garry@mda.ca (Garry Holmen) writes: >Andria L. Hunter (andria@sys.toronto.edu) wrote: > >>making the NHL. I think it makes more sense to make strength comparisons. >>I'd be willing to bet that Fleury could bench press 200 lbs or maybe >>even more ... it'd be pretty hard to find a 5'6" woman who could do the >>same! I'm 5'6" and 140 lbs, but the most I've ever benched is only >>140 lbs ... that's above average for women, but not close to what the >>weakest NHL guy could do! I think it's very unlikely that a female >As a powerlifter I can quote a few women who fall in that category >(or close enough to it.) Tamara Grimwood has benched 400+ lbs at 180 lbs >body weight, Paula Suzuki has benched 350+ as has Debbie Earney and >both of the latter two women are around 150 lbs. >Mary Jefferies has lifted 315+ lbs in the 148 lb class as well. >Another point of reference is from the IPF world games where the heaviest >bench for the 148 lb class was 248 and the lightest was 198. Wow, that's pretty incredible! Just curious, how does that compare to men who are in the 150 pound weight category? Actually, I guess bench pressing was probably a bad choice for comparison because it doesn't necessarily translate into the type of strength you need for hockey. It might be better to somehow look at a measure of combined leg and upper body strength. Just for fun, I worked out the average size of the women's canadian national teams (including 2 goalies): HEIGHT WEIGHT 1990: 5' 5.5" 138.00 (body checking at 1990 World Championship) 1992: 5' 5.7" 140.20 1994: 5' 6.4" 139.65 >But your point is well made... heck the main reason why I didn't go >any farther then Junior B is because of my size at that age. 6' and >160 lbs isn't that large nor strong in the game of hockey... alas now >I'm 200 and that isn't a problem anymore. But if you haven't made it >in hockey by the time you're 16 it's unlikely you have the skills or the >size to be at the NHL level. >For someone to overlook the size limitations the skills have to be there >in excess. And that's one of the few reasons why Fleury is in the NHL... >his scoring and playmaking abilities are far above average (if not near >the top of the league.) Yes, I agree. That's very true. He's also pretty quick. And yes, as someone else said, he also has a big heart! Not enough can be said about the importance of desire and determination. I think size is probably the biggest issue because no matter how much skill you have, if you're a 130 pound man or woman, you're not likely to make the NHL because you'd just be tossed (and splattered :-)) everywhere out there! >Good luck with your hockey career Andria. Thanks. :-) Unfortunately I won't be trying out for the national team again due to a chronic groin injury. :-( Oh well, it was fun and I'm really fortunate to have had the opportunity to play for Team Canada. It was a dream come true for me!! :-) What an experience! :-) Andria #55 ============================================================================== | ... She shoots! ...... She scoooooores!!! | | _ __ | | ~o ~o ~o ~o | ~o __|\ )_ | | \____/|) <|> (|\_____/ \/Y\/| `#(|\0__/ /| \__) | | /> /> \ /> . /\ ('\\---' | .| | | | z z . z z \_. z z z z \_\_\ | | | | ` ` |_/ | | TEAM CANADA - WOMEN'S WORLD ICE HOCKEY CHAMPIONS - 1990, 1992, 1994 | ============================================================================== | For women's hockey info via the world wide web: | | http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andria | ==============================================================================